Please help identify a revolver.

**Cattleman** · 07-09-2010, 02:35 PM

From June 68-69, as an Army Pilot in VN for the 21st RAC, I carried a small frame, double action, 38 spl, parkerized revolver as part of my survival kit. I am almost certain it was a Colt, but there have been so many years and medical issues since that I cannot be sure. If anyone has any info that would help me with the make and model of this firearm I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks, Bill

**bluedlightning** · 07-09-2010, 05:31 PM

It was most likley either a Offical Police model or a Commando model left over from WWII. There was allso a short lived all alumimum alloy pistol called the Aircrewman Special that allso fired a special low powered M41 military 38 cartridge that only devolped 16,000 psi. Not very likley you carried one of these.

**budroe** · 07-10-2010, 04:35 AM

I know a number of Army pilots who served in Nam that carried S&W model 60's. Some also carried a 5-shot lightweight S&W.

**Cattleman** · 07-10-2010, 07:46 AM

Found a picture of a Commando online -- it looks like a real possibility. I want to try and find one in a shop to compare the size with what I remember.

**Cattleman** · 07-10-2010, 07:53 AM

Found a picture of a model 60 S&W and that was not right. Can anyone help with the model # of the lightweight 5 shot S&W?

**deputy** · 07-10-2010, 11:12 AM

i got courious as the commerical version smith model 12 was the only thing similar that i knew of...........

so for 68', a 5 shot i'm thinking smith model 37?

for a 6 shot possibly a colt cobra or colt agent?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Cobra

colt had made several changes or "issue" models of the agents that changed the appearance

**budroe** · 07-10-2010, 11:26 AM

Think I've attached a photo of a model 37 airweight - at least I know the revolver is the model 37; I always have problems attaching photos!!!

**Cattleman** · 07-10-2010, 02:14 PM

Really appreciate all the help!. The revolver I carried was not the 37/airweight. From the pictures I have been reviewing I feel sure it had a four inch barrel. Other than the finish , what is the difference between a Commando and the Official Police models? Mine looked like these two only with a grey parkerized finish. Would they both be considered fairly small in frame size?

**Machinist** · 07-10-2010, 04:57 PM

The Official Police was a largish medium frame like the S&W L frame or the Ruger GP-100.

The Police Positive, Detective Spec, Cobra, Agent were built on the Colt D frame which was their smallest frame, a little bigger than the Mod 60 J frame S&W but smaller than the K frame. All the Colts were six shot.

The Cobra had an alloy frame and was offered with a 4" barrel at times.

The Commando was an Official Police with a rougher Parkerized finish made in WW2.

The Commando Special was a similar version of the small Detective Special made in the Mid 1980s..

A lot of S&W K frame revolvers were issued to air crew or included in survival gear, steel or alloy frames and 2" or 4" barrels. As mentioned there was also an alloy cylinder version. This carried light weight too far.

**Machinist** · 07-10-2010, 05:03 PM

If you are still not sure if it was a Colt or S&W, the most distinctive difference is the cylinder latch. To open the cylinder on a S&W you push it forward, on a Colt you pull it back.

**deputy** · 07-10-2010, 05:36 PM

here's and interesting older thread.............

http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com...ght=aircrewman

**twmccloskey** · 07-11-2010, 07:10 AM

Look for a 38 Combat Master piece....K-17 I think.

Tom

**Brian45** · 07-11-2010, 08:33 AM

It does sound like a Colt Commando from your description. Most had black rubber grips except for the earliest models in early WWII that had wooden grips. They were common and used by Army aircrew for years after. The USAF aircrews used S&W Model 15s and normally in two inch. Some of those also made it to other branches in later years I understand.
I have an earlier Commando with the wooden grips stamped Buick and a number on the butt as plant protection used them also during WWII.
They are slightly larger than a K frame, have no ejector rod shroud and no lanyard hole. The cylinder release pulls back as mentioned.
S&W Victory guns were similar and also used after the war. Those had the push forward cylinder release and likely wood grips and I believe a lanyard hole.

**Cattleman** · 07-11-2010, 03:47 PM

Thanks again for all the help! At this point I believe the revolver must have been a Commando. I feel certain about the four inch barrel, front sight without ramp, ejector rod without shroud and gray parkerized finish. I believe, but am not certain, it had a cylinder latch that needed to be pulled back to open, six round cylinder, and plastic grips. Cannot remember anything about a lanyard hole. The thing that bothers me most about saying it was a Commando is the size. Someone referred to it as being "largish medium" and I remember it being relatively small. I cannot find a Commando close to home to examine. Would someone please advise what other colts were made on the same frame so I can take a look at one. Thanks!

**Machinist** · 07-12-2010, 01:24 AM

The Colt Trooper and Python are that sized frame. It is a little bigger than the K frame S&W like the Mod 10. The later S&W L frame was similar in frame size.

The one on the lower left is a Trooper with six inch barrel. Above are two S&W K frames. Across is a S&W J frame with five inch barrel and above that is a S&W N frame with 8 3/8" barrel.

**Machinist** · 07-12-2010, 02:08 AM

Here are some pictures of the Colt. Maybe they will help with size.

**deputy** · 07-13-2010, 04:33 PM

the commando

**Cattleman** · 07-27-2010, 04:04 PM

Mission accomplished! After visiting at least a half dozen gun shops I found a nice Official Police with a four inch barrel. There is no doubt in my mind that the parkerised version (Commando) of this is what I carried in VN. In fact, I was so glad to find this sample, and liked it so much, I brought it home with me. I believe the reason I was confused about the size was because in my memory I was comparing it to a model 1917 S&W 45 that I had acquired shortly before going overseas. In any case, I certainly do appreciate all the help. Now, one more question if I may. Has anyone fired 38+P in one of these revolvers? Had a gunsmith check it out and he said it is in excellent mechanical shape and it would be alright to use the +P ammo. I would just feel better hearing from someone who has actually used the ammo. I would test fire the gun with regular 38 special ammo and just keep it loaded with the +P for home defense. Thanks again!

**Machinist** · 07-27-2010, 04:29 PM

The Official Police was introduced in 1927 and shortly after it was approved by Colt for the .38/.44 round which was a hot loaded .38 Special for use in .44 framed (N frame) S&Ws. These were loaded much hotter than modern +P so I would have no problem feeding it +P ammo, it will never know the difference. The quality of earlier Colts was wonderful so you should have a prize there that is a joy to handle and shoot. Congratulations.

**Popeye** · 07-29-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

I would test fire the gun with regular 38 special ammo and just keep it loaded with the +P for home defense.

This should cause no problems.

07-09-2010, 02:35 PM	#1
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Please help identify a revolver. From June 68-69, as an Army Pilot in VN for the 21st RAC, I carried a small frame, double action, 38 spl, parkerized revolver as part of my survival kit. I am almost certain it was a Colt, but there have been so many years and medical issues since that I cannot be sure. If anyone has any info that would help me with the make and model of this firearm I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Bill

07-09-2010, 05:31 PM	#2
bluedlightning Join Date: July 9 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,540	It was most likley either a Offical Police model or a Commando model left over from WWII. There was allso a short lived all alumimum alloy pistol called the Aircrewman Special that allso fired a special low powered M41 military 38 cartridge that only devolped 16,000 psi. Not very likley you carried one of these. I would never invade the United States. There would be a gun behind every blade of grass. Isoroku Yamamoto. When there is moral rot within a nation, its government topples easily. But with wise and knowledgeable leaders, there is stability. Proverbs 28:2 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer peresecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:12-13 KJV

07-10-2010, 04:35 AM	#3
budroe Join Date: June 15 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 9,345	I know a number of Army pilots who served in Nam that carried S&W model 60's. Some also carried a 5-shot lightweight S&W. SHOOT, MOVE, COMMUNICATE!!!!

07-10-2010, 11:12 AM	#6
deputy Join Date: April 29 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 232	i got courious as the commerical version smith model 12 was the only thing similar that i knew of........... so for 68', a 5 shot i'm thinking smith model 37? for a 6 shot possibly a colt cobra or colt agent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Cobra colt had made several changes or "issue" models of the agents that changed the appearance Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. Theodore Roosevelt I'm a Timex watch in a digital age........... Last edited by deputy; 07-10-2010 at 11:28 AM..

07-10-2010, 05:36 PM	#11
deputy Join Date: April 29 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 232	here's and interesting older thread............. http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com...ght=aircrewman Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. Theodore Roosevelt I'm a Timex watch in a digital age...........

07-10-2010, 07:46 AM	#4
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Found a picture of a Commando online -- it looks like a real possibility. I want to try and find one in a shop to compare the size with what I remember.

07-10-2010, 07:53 AM	#5
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Found a picture of a model 60 S&W and that was not right. Can anyone help with the model # of the lightweight 5 shot S&W?

07-10-2010, 02:14 PM	#8
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Really appreciate all the help!. The revolver I carried was not the 37/airweight. From the pictures I have been reviewing I feel sure it had a four inch barrel. Other than the finish , what is the difference between a Commando and the Official Police models? Mine looked like these two only with a grey parkerized finish. Would they both be considered fairly small in frame size?

07-10-2010, 04:57 PM	#9
Machinist Join Date: May 29 2010 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 339	The Official Police was a largish medium frame like the S&W L frame or the Ruger GP-100. The Police Positive, Detective Spec, Cobra, Agent were built on the Colt D frame which was their smallest frame, a little bigger than the Mod 60 J frame S&W but smaller than the K frame. All the Colts were six shot. The Cobra had an alloy frame and was offered with a 4" barrel at times. The Commando was an Official Police with a rougher Parkerized finish made in WW2. The Commando Special was a similar version of the small Detective Special made in the Mid 1980s.. A lot of S&W K frame revolvers were issued to air crew or included in survival gear, steel or alloy frames and 2" or 4" barrels. As mentioned there was also an alloy cylinder version. This carried light weight too far.

07-10-2010, 05:03 PM	#10
Machinist Join Date: May 29 2010 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 339	If you are still not sure if it was a Colt or S&W, the most distinctive difference is the cylinder latch. To open the cylinder on a S&W you push it forward, on a Colt you pull it back.

07-11-2010, 07:10 AM	#12
twmccloskey Join Date: December 30 2008 Posts: 683	Look for a 38 Combat Master piece....K-17 I think. Tom Do not involve yourself in the affairs of dragons, remember you are crunchy and good with ketchup. _________________________________________ Lets see one in five Americans own guns, and only four million belong to the NRA? Something is wrong there. -------------------------------------------- The government wants to borrow money then give it to the people who screwed it up, and my grand kids have to pay it back? In the mean time my taxes are going up, and my income is going down? Sounds about right!

07-11-2010, 08:33 AM	#13
Brian45 Join Date: June 1 2007 Location: Davison, MI. Posts: 2,569	It does sound like a Colt Commando from your description. Most had black rubber grips except for the earliest models in early WWII that had wooden grips. They were common and used by Army aircrew for years after. The USAF aircrews used S&W Model 15s and normally in two inch. Some of those also made it to other branches in later years I understand. I have an earlier Commando with the wooden grips stamped Buick and a number on the butt as plant protection used them also during WWII. They are slightly larger than a K frame, have no ejector rod shroud and no lanyard hole. The cylinder release pulls back as mentioned. S&W Victory guns were similar and also used after the war. Those had the push forward cylinder release and likely wood grips and I believe a lanyard hole.

07-11-2010, 03:47 PM	#14
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Thanks again for all the help! At this point I believe the revolver must have been a Commando. I feel certain about the four inch barrel, front sight without ramp, ejector rod without shroud and gray parkerized finish. I believe, but am not certain, it had a cylinder latch that needed to be pulled back to open, six round cylinder, and plastic grips. Cannot remember anything about a lanyard hole. The thing that bothers me most about saying it was a Commando is the size. Someone referred to it as being "largish medium" and I remember it being relatively small. I cannot find a Commando close to home to examine. Would someone please advise what other colts were made on the same frame so I can take a look at one. Thanks!

07-12-2010, 01:24 AM	#15
Machinist Join Date: May 29 2010 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 339	The Colt Trooper and Python are that sized frame. It is a little bigger than the K frame S&W like the Mod 10. The later S&W L frame was similar in frame size. The one on the lower left is a Trooper with six inch barrel. Above are two S&W K frames. Across is a S&W J frame with five inch barrel and above that is a S&W N frame with 8 3/8" barrel.

07-12-2010, 02:08 AM	#16
Machinist Join Date: May 29 2010 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 339	Here are some pictures of the Colt. Maybe they will help with size.

07-13-2010, 04:33 PM	#17
deputy Join Date: April 29 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 232	the commando Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. Theodore Roosevelt I'm a Timex watch in a digital age...........

07-27-2010, 04:04 PM	#18
Cattleman Join Date: July 9 2010 Location: WV Posts: 6	Mission accomplished! After visiting at least a half dozen gun shops I found a nice Official Police with a four inch barrel. There is no doubt in my mind that the parkerised version (Commando) of this is what I carried in VN. In fact, I was so glad to find this sample, and liked it so much, I brought it home with me. I believe the reason I was confused about the size was because in my memory I was comparing it to a model 1917 S&W 45 that I had acquired shortly before going overseas. In any case, I certainly do appreciate all the help. Now, one more question if I may. Has anyone fired 38+P in one of these revolvers? Had a gunsmith check it out and he said it is in excellent mechanical shape and it would be alright to use the +P ammo. I would just feel better hearing from someone who has actually used the ammo. I would test fire the gun with regular 38 special ammo and just keep it loaded with the +P for home defense. Thanks again!

07-27-2010, 04:29 PM	#19
Machinist Join Date: May 29 2010 Location: McKinney, Texas Posts: 339	The Official Police was introduced in 1927 and shortly after it was approved by Colt for the .38/.44 round which was a hot loaded .38 Special for use in .44 framed (N frame) S&Ws. These were loaded much hotter than modern +P so I would have no problem feeding it +P ammo, it will never know the difference. The quality of earlier Colts was wonderful so you should have a prize there that is a joy to handle and shoot. Congratulations. Last edited by Machinist; 07-27-2010 at 04:47 PM..

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