Info needed on Spanish Mouser

**cjm270** · 07-29-2010, 09:12 AM

A friend has a Spanish Mouser passed down from his father. It's a nice looking sporter in 7x57. We compared photos online and are pretty sure the rifle is an 1893 model.

This rifle does not hold good groups and two smiths have looked at it. They both say the rifling, crown and headspace is good. The gun has a hard time with controlled feeding, with the cartridge sometimes loading in crooked and making contact as it goes in with the side of the chamber.
The bullet tips are nicked a bit. Not sure if this is the cause of the inaccuracy.

I noticed the firing pin sticks out while the bullet is stripped from the magazine and thought this could be the cause of the feeding instability. The smith told me this is normal and you just have to fast feed the rifle in a quick cycle and that the firing pin will retract when the bolt is turned down at the end of the cycle as this is a cock on closing system.

Not to dismiss their advice but it sure seems strange that it would be normal for any firing pin to be anywhere near the primer during the controlled feed operation. Can anyone shed a little light? My friend would love to hunt this year with that rifle but is not sure it can be trusted.

**Stevejet** · 07-29-2010, 10:03 AM

British Enfield are "cock-on-closing" rifles and their firing pins do not protrude. A firing pin bolt spring could be the culprit or simply hardened grease inside the bolt body?

**cjm270** · 07-29-2010, 12:41 PM

Thanks for responding Stevejet. Assuming the Enfield rifle bolt is probably the same design this Mouser has a problem.

I figured this was not good having the pin stick out of the boltface while the cartridge slides up making contact primer with pin . This seems dangerous to me and should have been a flag for any decent gunsmith. I'll get with my friend in the next week and disassemble the bolt for a close inspection.

**Popeye** · 07-29-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

This rifle does not hold good groups and two smiths have looked at it. They both say the rifling, crown and headspace is good.

Bedding

**Barkley** · 07-29-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

Bedding

The cause of many problems, in guns and people.

**bluedlightning** · 07-29-2010, 06:32 PM

A big problem with inaccuracy can be traced to copper fouling in the barrel. To check for this soak a patch in cleaning solvent and push into the bore from the chamber first till its 1/4 inch from the muzel and let sit for half a hour. Push out and if its green you have copper fouling. Scrub with a new bore brush throughly if fouled with copper.

**bluedlightning** · 07-29-2010, 06:48 PM

Just got thinking about you saying the firing pin is protruding when the bolt is open. This is wrong, the firing pin should not protrude when the bolt is open. Check to see if the bolt shroud is screwed onto the rear of the bolt completly. With the firing pin protruding with it open it will cause feeding problems no mater how fast the bolt is worked and could possible cause a out of battery firing which is very very dangerous. If you know how to dissasemble the bolt do so to check and see if the firing pin tip is bent and to make shure its completly assembled.

**ncroamer8** · 07-29-2010, 06:57 PM

Arisaka's also cock-on-closing. Safty only operates when loaded.
Why would you have the safty on with an empty chamber.

**cjm270** · 07-30-2010, 09:54 AM

Thanks for the ideas, lots to check for including the bedding. I cleaned this rifle and it took quite a lot to finally see the rifling clearly.Complete breakdown is probably necessary to get to the bottom of why the rifle groups poorly. No key-holing just wild groups with some off target.

**KathleenElsie** · 08-03-2010, 07:43 PM

**cjm270** · 08-04-2010, 06:49 AM

KathleenElsie your absolutely right. Pics of the rifle will be coming soon.

**cjm270** · 08-10-2010, 04:58 PM

As promised I finally got the rifle back and have some pics. In a couple of photos the firing pin can be seen sticking up just above the boltface.
With bolt indexed to firing the pin comes out quite a bit farther. No problems found with the spring and no broken parts found.

Not sure but it's possible that the firing pin was replaced at some time and not fitted properly by removing some of the tip. The rifle has an aftermarket trigger ass'y and the safety altered for a scope. The last 4" of the stock does not contact the barrel. I have a couple of smiths in mind to look at this bolt. As I stated before one gunsmith told me this is a normal condition after looking at the rifle.

**cjm270** · 08-10-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluedlightning

Just got thinking about you saying the firing pin is protruding when the bolt is open. This is wrong, the firing pin should not protrude when the bolt is open. Check to see if the bolt shroud is screwed onto the rear of the bolt completly. With the firing pin protruding with it open it will cause feeding problems no mater how fast the bolt is worked and could possible cause a out of battery firing which is very very dangerous. If you know how to dissasemble the bolt do so to check and see if the firing pin tip is bent and to make shure its completly assembled.

I tried to screw the bolt shroud in more and it allowed a half turn more and the bolt fit in the gun alright but the safety would not move to safe when the gun was cocked. The pin still stuck out but barely.

**cjm270** · 09-01-2010, 09:53 AM

Update, finally got the rifle off to D&D Gunsmiths of Troy Mich. for a look. They made adjustments to the front and rear of the firing pin and now there is no abnormal protrusion of pin. They also took the rifle to the range and sighted in at 100 yard.
With 150gr loads it grouped 2.5" and with 175gr about 4". Not too bad for a 90 year old barrel. We'll be off to the range to confirm accuracy and of course try to do better using the 150's. If so I'll post a target pic.

07-29-2010, 09:12 AM	#1
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	Info needed on Spanish Mouser A friend has a Spanish Mouser passed down from his father. It's a nice looking sporter in 7x57. We compared photos online and are pretty sure the rifle is an 1893 model. This rifle does not hold good groups and two smiths have looked at it. They both say the rifling, crown and headspace is good. The gun has a hard time with controlled feeding, with the cartridge sometimes loading in crooked and making contact as it goes in with the side of the chamber. The bullet tips are nicked a bit. Not sure if this is the cause of the inaccuracy. I noticed the firing pin sticks out while the bullet is stripped from the magazine and thought this could be the cause of the feeding instability. The smith told me this is normal and you just have to fast feed the rifle in a quick cycle and that the firing pin will retract when the bolt is turned down at the end of the cycle as this is a cock on closing system. Not to dismiss their advice but it sure seems strange that it would be normal for any firing pin to be anywhere near the primer during the controlled feed operation. Can anyone shed a little light? My friend would love to hunt this year with that rifle but is not sure it can be trusted.

07-29-2010, 06:32 PM	#6
bluedlightning Join Date: July 9 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,552	A big problem with inaccuracy can be traced to copper fouling in the barrel. To check for this soak a patch in cleaning solvent and push into the bore from the chamber first till its 1/4 inch from the muzel and let sit for half a hour. Push out and if its green you have copper fouling. Scrub with a new bore brush throughly if fouled with copper. I would never invade the United States. There would be a gun behind every blade of grass. Isoroku Yamamoto. When there is moral rot within a nation, its government topples easily. But with wise and knowledgeable leaders, there is stability. Proverbs 28:2 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer peresecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:12-13 KJV

07-29-2010, 06:48 PM	#7
bluedlightning Join Date: July 9 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,552	Just got thinking about you saying the firing pin is protruding when the bolt is open. This is wrong, the firing pin should not protrude when the bolt is open. Check to see if the bolt shroud is screwed onto the rear of the bolt completly. With the firing pin protruding with it open it will cause feeding problems no mater how fast the bolt is worked and could possible cause a out of battery firing which is very very dangerous. If you know how to dissasemble the bolt do so to check and see if the firing pin tip is bent and to make shure its completly assembled. I would never invade the United States. There would be a gun behind every blade of grass. Isoroku Yamamoto. When there is moral rot within a nation, its government topples easily. But with wise and knowledgeable leaders, there is stability. Proverbs 28:2 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer peresecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:12-13 KJV

08-03-2010, 07:43 PM	#10
KathleenElsie Join Date: March 28 2009 Location: Western Pennsylvania Posts: 3,118	PROTECTING-LIFE FROM CONCEPTION TO NATURAL DEATH TO HIM THEREFORE WHO KNOWETH TO DO GOOD AND DOETH IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN. James 4:17

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07-29-2010, 10:03 AM	#2
Stevejet Join Date: October 10 2007 Location: Fountain Valley, CA. Posts: 3,907	British Enfield are "cock-on-closing" rifles and their firing pins do not protrude. A firing pin bolt spring could be the culprit or simply hardened grease inside the bolt body?

07-29-2010, 12:41 PM	#3
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	Thanks for responding Stevejet. Assuming the Enfield rifle bolt is probably the same design this Mouser has a problem. I figured this was not good having the pin stick out of the boltface while the cartridge slides up making contact primer with pin . This seems dangerous to me and should have been a flag for any decent gunsmith. I'll get with my friend in the next week and disassemble the bolt for a close inspection.

07-29-2010, 06:57 PM	#8
ncroamer8 Join Date: September 3 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 450	Arisaka's also cock-on-closing. Safty only operates when loaded. Why would you have the safty on with an empty chamber.

07-30-2010, 09:54 AM	#9
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	Thanks for the ideas, lots to check for including the bedding. I cleaned this rifle and it took quite a lot to finally see the rifling clearly.Complete breakdown is probably necessary to get to the bottom of why the rifle groups poorly. No key-holing just wild groups with some off target.

08-04-2010, 06:49 AM	#11
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	KathleenElsie your absolutely right. Pics of the rifle will be coming soon.

08-10-2010, 04:58 PM	#12
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	As promised I finally got the rifle back and have some pics. In a couple of photos the firing pin can be seen sticking up just above the boltface. With bolt indexed to firing the pin comes out quite a bit farther. No problems found with the spring and no broken parts found. Not sure but it's possible that the firing pin was replaced at some time and not fitted properly by removing some of the tip. The rifle has an aftermarket trigger ass'y and the safety altered for a scope. The last 4" of the stock does not contact the barrel. I have a couple of smiths in mind to look at this bolt. As I stated before one gunsmith told me this is a normal condition after looking at the rifle.

09-01-2010, 09:53 AM	#14
cjm270 Join Date: May 19 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 325	Update, finally got the rifle off to D&D Gunsmiths of Troy Mich. for a look. They made adjustments to the front and rear of the firing pin and now there is no abnormal protrusion of pin. They also took the rifle to the range and sighted in at 100 yard. With 150gr loads it grouped 2.5" and with 175gr about 4". Not too bad for a 90 year old barrel. We'll be off to the range to confirm accuracy and of course try to do better using the 150's. If so I'll post a target pic.